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The use of Christian doctrine that falsely condemns homosexuality is the same doctrine that the prior generation used to condone the practice of buying and selling humans as slaves. The Bible was used as justification for slavery, right up to the moment it was made illegal. Slavery was a common practice in the time of Jesus and earlier, yet Jesus himself said nothing about it.
EX 21:20,21 God clearly says we can beat slaves to death. Ex 21:1-6 God says if a master allows his male slave to get married and have children, then the wife and children become the master's property too. Even if the male slave should gain his freedom, the wife and the children must remain with the master. So much for family values! Ephesians 6:5 is the NT support of slavery. Also according to Jewish culture at the time a women was supposed to marry her rapist! Think what following that requirement would do to a women raped today!
Christians claimed Leviticus 25 supports servitude of up to 49 years. Although it was the Christians, not the Jews, who used the Bible to defend slavery.
Montesquieu was considered a heretic for opposing slavery, and his works were condemned. One of the most infamous slave trading ships (that of Hawkins) was called the Jesus. Slavery was viewed as the will of God, and slaves were taught Christianity in order that they might recognize that "truth" and realize and accept that slavery was the natural order of things, sanctioned by the Bible itself. A minister writing in 1860 (in "Slavery, Its Institution and Origin" said: "So we see that God not only instituted slavery but He also made it to forever be a part of the moral probation of the human race, and to be a great lesson to the end of time of his abhorrence of sin." Just over 100 years ago in this country, people who considered themselves model Christians honestly and completely believed that slavery was morally right and opposing slavery was the real sin.
The South - the so called "Bible Belt" appealed to the Bible to justify slavery. Remember that the Southern Baptist church got its start in the 1840's precisely over the issue of slavery. Preachers quoted Eph 6:5 to support slavery then, just as vigorously as Jerry Falwell misquotes Romans 1 to condemn homosexuality. But there's nothing unbiblical about slavery. Like everyone else of his time, Paul regarded slavery as a normal part of society. In Paul's time there was no understanding of loving homosexuality, only the terrible acts of pederasty - hetero males degrading other hetero males sexually. The Bible doesn't change but society understanding does.
Today 2000 years later, we no longer practice pederasty or slavery. I hope soon, anti-gay sermons will be as dated as pro-slavery or anti-race mixing sermons are today.
The Bible says not a word about homosexuality. The word homosexual was not
even included in the English translations until about 1940. Only the confusion
and ignorance about the horrible practices of pederasty being falsely translated
as homosexuality is the cause of the false teachings and making life so
difficult for so many loving wonderful Christian gays and lesbians.
Public Post from Lorraine Harris follows - What would those that say they
know God is against homosexuals say to her? Do they know their communications
with God is superior to hers?
"I am a born-again believer, that is I met the Living Jesus & have a
personal relationship with him since 1963. I am baptized in the Holy Ghost, and
I speak in tongues and operate in a number of other gifts."
"I am a "Lesbian" - I was born that way - for a number of years I believed
the teachings of the churches regarding homosexuality, but in the early 1980's I
had an experience which made me question the traditional interpretation of the
Bible regarding homosexuality and God led me thru the scriptures with a final
conclusion that as far as I could see homosexuality is not mentioned in the
original texts of the Bible, not in the O.T. nor in the N.T."
"It is certainly not mentioned nor prohibited in the traditional scriptures
used to do that. The fact is that for many years I heard the Rama (Spirit) of
God regarding many things and yet I continued to accept the false teachings of
the church regarding homosexuality. After God showed me that there was no
prohibition to homosexuality in the Bible He also showed me how that from time
to time He tried to bring my attention to that this truth but that my own
internalized homophobia prevented me from hearing from Him regarding these
truths."
Felicia Fontaine now a clergyperson with MCC discussing Romans 1 and
"natural":
"I believe my internal, intrinsic nature is to be lesbian, then for me to
engage in heterosexual relationships would be wrong. I will go so far as to say
that when I did try and deny my nature, my relationship with God suffered
tremendously because I used men to help me feel better about myself, and I
abused myself because I refused to accept who I believed and still believe God
made me to be."
A Minister Warning Homosexuals not to Join His Church Due To Ignorance
Ignorance and prejudice about homosexuality is damaging even to the point of
suicide. It is for that reason that I do not encourage gays and lesbians to
become of our church and will not knowingly baptize one of God's gay children
into the church unless they are determined and fully aware (and prepared to deal
with) the hatred and prejudice they will face at the hand of fellow members. We
as a church are not prepared to receive them and treat them with the equality
and dignity which we recognize is every other minorities due. It is truly a sad
state of affairs when people must be shielded from the negative consequences
resulting from ignorance on the part of those who claim to represent Christ. I'm
reminded of Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge," only in
cases like this our ignorance results in the destruction of other people. This
is the ultimate travesty for we are here to help rather than to hurt people.
Those with a sexual orientation that our members are not prepared to deal with
should be referred elsewhere for spiritual nurture. As one stated "If you can't
help them (without insisting on chastity or changing their natural sexual
orientation), at least don't hurt them." Our church is no place for a person
with a homosexual orientation, and we are the ones who lose out on the gifts and
talents they can offer the body of Christ. The Adventist church does not support
gays and lesbians unless they are willing to look with loathing and repugnance
upon their sexual orientation, and spend their entire lives hating themselves
for being what they are and denying themselves totally when it comes to sexual
satisfaction. - Prodigy post Ron Astorly, Adventist minister.
Fortunately many Christian Churches are battling the ignorance and false
scriptural teachings and embracing gays and lesbians. But others and within
congregation fighting for Gods love of all his children, regardless of what
sexual orientation He gave them, stirs up hatred and division among Gods people.
That is the abomination, not loving homosexual relationships.
"I can only take so much. Homophobia has been part of the Catholic Church for
eons. But the Bishop of Rome (henceforth, that is how I address him) went too
far in Vatican City when he viciously attacked Gay people who mean no harm to
anyone. I'm tired of being treated like trash by the Catholic Church. It will be
heart-wrenching to leave, but I now realize that the Catholic Church hates me
and will never love me."
"I shall write the Bishop of Rome (he is no longer my Pope) today although I
know my letter will never, ever, be read by anyone in Vatican City of any
importance, at least I will have had the satisfaction of explaining to hi
Holiness that his vicious attack yesterday on gay people while saying Mass was
the straw that broke the camel's back. I am no longer a Roman Catholic as of
today. And I am shocked seeing the sentence I have just written. I will
go where I am loved and accepted and treated with human dignity at all times." -
Xavier Salinger Public Prodigy post
"I sympathize with you completely. When I heard the Pope's address, I became
very angry and very hurt. I was raised and educated in the Church and I finally
realized how hypocritical the Church is after all. How can A church consider
itself to be the heritage of Christ and proclaim a policy of social
discrimination and hatred? I guess I cannot understand the outright hypocrisy of
the whole matter. After all, the Church has idolized what can be considered a
completely unnatural form of sexuality for centuries - celibacy. Yet, at the
same time, it is now quick to condemn those individuals who seek to form healthy
loving and long-term gay relationships (in marriage). But, then, Xavier, what
can we really expect from a Church that only recently admitted that after all
Galileo was right. In recent years, I have come to understand the difference
between a relationship with a loving and always-present God and a relationship
with a bureaucratic and dispassionate ecclesiastical organization."
"Congratulations! Perhaps now you can join me and many others who could no
longer accept an organization trapped by its own homophobia and discrimination.
Perhaps you will come to agree with me that this was an organization that has
lost Christ's message of compassion and love. Instead, it has become a Church
guilty of blatant idolatry and ignorance."
New Catechism Admits Homosexuality Natuaral But Makes God Very Unloving
Catholics at least now recognize that homosexuals have no choice in their sexual
orientation (a fact now proven psychologically and now finding genetic support)
but consider their condition is "aberrant behavior which is against the natural
order." Wow does that lack any logical Congruence!
Lets see, God creates homosexuals giving them strong sexual desires and then
forces them to live a life of misery, artificially repressing the natural sexual
desire God gave them. That's quite a mean God, certainly not the one I know.
First of all homosexuality is not a behavior, therefore it can not be
aberrant. Homosexuality is an inborn/innate orientation not a behavior choice.
Heterosexuals never have to be forced into celibacy. Why would God single out
the persons created homosexual to live a life of forced celibacy, and then
permit them to be so ostracized and abused by the heterosexual and religious
community! This is a loving God?
God created homosexuals to be homosexuals, responsible homosexuals, just as
God created heterosexuals to be heterosexuals and to act as heterosexuals,
responsible heterosexuals! It is wrong for either to act irresponsibly. Misuse
or abuse of our sexuality, regardless of which variety, is wrong because THAT is
against Gods will.
The vast number of "conversions" of natural homosexuals, result not in a
heterosexual desire but a life of celibacy out of fear of God due to false
teachings that somehow homosexuality is sinful.
If a man is born with only one leg, we provide an artificial leg, we don't
pray that God will grow him a new one. But in essence, the homosexual is told to
pray a lot and hop on one leg for all of life by being celibate.
This call to celibacy is like saying "you can be a bird, but don't fly." Why
would celibacy bring the homosexual into God's ideal of an integrated life of
love? Does a lifetime of denial of true natural self and the refusal of the gift
of loving human sexuality be more Christ's will? I think not, especially when no
where in scripture is homosexuality as we know it today even mentioned it as
sinful.
Only the bigots and those that are perhaps so insecure with their own
sexuality teach lies of hate rather than what is biblical - Christ's love for
all that God created whether they were born left handed, right handed,
heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual, it makes no difference. That's simply how
God created them - no matter how insecure you are that doesn't change the facts.
In Sierra Da Capivara National Park in Brazil archaeologists have uncovered
rocks used as tools by man and remains of fires dating back 60,000 years to the
Stone Age. Some 1000 families live close to the park, eking out a living by
hunting deer and armadillo. The people, most of them illiterate, gave little
importance to hundreds of paintings found on the rocks of the mountains.
Faded images in red, white, black and gray of wildlife, such as fish and
deer, appear alongside stick-figures hinting and giving birth and graphic
illustrations of Stone Age sex.
Homosexuality, group sex and seemingly impossible positions for intercourse
testify to the relaxed lifestyles of the ancient Brazilians. Guidon first heard
of the paintings around 20 years ago and has since dated them back as far as
12,000 years.
During the biennial assembly of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
(ELCA), more than 500 church leaders broke silence and made public their support
for the ecclesiastical recognition of loving committed relationships among
lesbian and gay people, and for the ordination of qualified women and men as
pastors and church professionals, regardless of sexual orientation. These church
leaders, known as the Network (to end sexual discrimination in the ELCA),
publicly released their names to an official representative of the ELCA. The
group includes seminary professors, bishops, pastors, lay leaders and others.
Bishop Emeritus Stanley E. Olson, a leader of the Network, is among those who
publicly came out with his support. Bishop Olson said, "I have witnessed the
unscriptural burdens the ELCA has placed on all of its many gay and lesbian
members, whether lay or ordained. Ass one who has held the office of bishop in
the church, I cannot remain passive or silent."
In Matthew and Luke Jesus is portrayed as tolerant of a pederastic
relationship between the centurion and his "boy." A centurion had a slave
(doulos) whom he valued highly (or who was very precious); this slave was ill
and near death. Hearing about Jesus, he sent some Jewish elders with to request
Jesus to save his slave's life. The centurion had faith He could cure him. Jesus
said "I tell you, nowhere, even in Israel, have I found faith like this." and
healed the slave boy. (Luke 7:2-10).
The slightly different version in Matthew (8:5) refers in each instance to
the boy as "boy" (pais), not slave (doulos). "Boy in Greek connotes a catamite
or youth in a homosexual/pederastic relationship in the Greco-Roman world. These
relationships were socially acceptable and not uncommon in that culture. The boy
would not be trained to become a lifelong or adult homosexual if he was
naturally heterosexual but often would remain bisexual. This public acceptance
of pederasty, an institution which the Romans inherited from the Greeks, was
accompanied, however, by a measure of public anxiety. Effeminacy and
submissiveness, for example, were viewed with contempt. Roman aristocratic
families increasingly protected their young men by law from such assignments.
Hence the pederastic relationship was increasingly assigned to slaves, who had
no social reputation to lose.
The practice was very common in Jesus' day. Plutarch, the Greek biographer,
who traveled widely and taught in Rome, was born about a decade after Jesus
died. He discusses in his "Dialogue on Love" the question whether the love of
boys is superior to the love of women, a critical question of the day. The
tradition of the Greeks held the love of boys to be superior to a women.
Readers or hearers of the story in the first century would unquestionably
conclude, given the language that is used that the centurion was a pederast and
his boy a catamite. Luke reinforces that impression by characterizing the boy as
"very precious" to him.
This supports a picture of Jesus as one who was tolerant of such
relationships, a picture that is congruent with the rest of the New Testament.
However, it is not enough to say that Jesus was merely tolerant of this apparent
pederastic relationship. More then that, he was deeply impressed with the
centurions faith as to make it a prime example in his teachings recalled by both
Matthew and Luke.
"Dave, your discussion of the centurions servant is very interesting. It
raises some interesting questions. First, if the ministry of Jesus was to the
Jews, as we are told in the Gospels, it is not surprising that the subject of
homoeroticism did not present, given that the Jews universally considered
homoeroticism (among males) to be a purity issue (toevan, but not zemia) and a
practice of the "unclean Gentiles" with whom the Jews refused to mix socially.
Therefore, when the opportunity did present - in a setting in which the
writers of the Gospels were not only recalling the incident of faith and healing
to Jewish Christians but also to "Gentile" Christians - one would think that the
writers of the Gospels would have desired to clarify the issue if it were an
issue. Because, in their choice of words to label the functional
relationship of the young male servant with his master, they did not rule out
the possibility of homoeroticism (The Greek word, pais, connotes inclusion of
homoeroticism within the scope of the master-slave relationship), they have -
perhaps unintentionally - proffered a very strong argument from silence that
such a homoerotic relationship simply was not an issue for them and their
Hellenic culture.
A discussion of the synoptic process might hold a key. If it is true that Q
Source and the original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew was used as an outline for the
Gospel of Mark, which was then used together with the original Aramaic Matthew
as outlines for the Greek version of Matthew, it is interesting that the story
of the Centurian's pais does not appear in Mark. That the story *does* appear in
Luke using the Gk word duablos (sp?) argues for the possibility that Luke also
used Aramaic Matthew (or Q) in addition to Mark as its outline. The Question
then becomes why did Luke use diablos and not pais?
If Luke used the gospel of Mark as an outline, where did he get the story of
the healing of the Centurian's servant? From Aramaic Matthew? Luke's use of the
Gk duablos for "servant" could be circumstantially explained as translation bias
due to Luke's close association with Paul, a Pharisee who did address
homoeroticism in his Letter to the Romans as a consequence of the Gentiles'
idolatry.
Why did Peter's secretary, Mark, choose not to use the story in his own
gospel if he were truly using as his outline the Aramaic Matthew and the stories
of Jesus' messianic ministry related by the Apostle Peter?
Why did the author of the Gk version of Matthew choose the word pais
translating from the original Aramaic Matthew and using the Gospel of Mark as
its outline?"
Nowhere in the NT did Jesus say a word, even mistranslated about this
pederastic practice, much less anything about today's far different loving equal
homosexual relationships. That such an understanding of this text would surprise
the modern reader simply demonstrates the gulf that separates the world of the
biblical times and modern days in the area of sexual values.
"I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been
unto me; thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women." King
James
or, Revised English " Jonathan lies slain on your heights. I grieve for you,
Jonathan my brother; you are most dear to me; your love for me was wonderful,
passing the love of women." Is the same in all modern English versions.
The speaker is King David. David was Jonathan's brother-in-law While some may
not like the fact that this is what the scripture says it does clearly
state that the love between two men can be greater than between a man and a
women. Many Christians are homophobic. They should try really loving homosexuals
and they might find the fact homosexuals can deeply love each other not so
difficult to grasp and accept.Witness of a Pentecostal Christian Lesbian
Witness Of A Lesbian For Whom Heterosexuality Is The Unnatural Act Of Romans
1
Catholic Reaction To Pope's Gay Attack
Reply by John Bernardi:
Celibacy Is Unnatural
Even Common In Earliest Man
Over 500 Lutheran Church Leaders Support Gay/Lesbian Issues
Jesus' Praise For The Centurion Soldiers Slave Boy
From Cliff
Hammond
Internet Subject "Where does which Bible condemn Homosexuality":
King David's Love For Jonathan
Samuel 1:25-26 clearly states male-male love is greater than that of a
women.
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